Luther, Rome and the Bible

[andiclare]

Luther's doctrine was characterized by the concept of imputed righteousness, ......So, it doesn't matter what we do in this world, whether we live in sin, disobedience, defiance, lack of charity or purity, ... because we are covered by Christ's righteousness.

That is not what Luther taught.  Luther often used hyperbole to make his point.  

Sin Boldly, Luther's letter to Melancthon, is an example. Luther's words were taken out of context.

Here are the words that led into the "sin boldly" statement: "...Rather we should pray God to give us more of His Spirit. For I am expecting that the Lord will soon ravish Germany--which she deserves because of her unbelief, godlessness and hate of the Gospel. However, we shall be blamed for this chastisement, as we are made out to be heretics who have provoked God to this action... Those, however, will make excuses for their sins, ... let the will of the Lord be done. Amen!"

Look at the context. Luther was not encouraging people to sin. Luther was telling his followers not to be intimidated by their adversaries' accusations as we are all flawed human beings bound to error and sin. Luther is saying their adversaries are only pretending to completely avoid sin, but in reality, they too, are sinning.  Therefore, Sin Boldly.

Yeah, obviously this was hyperbole (well...I hope so anyhow lol). But Luther's sola fide and imputed righteousness doctrine did hold that our actions and obedience or lack thereof were technically of no consequence to our salvation, because it is faith alone that saves us. The natural consequences of this doctrine in unscrupulous hands is lawlessness.

What the Church teaches, however, was that faith without good works is dead faith, and only faith working through love and obedience to Christ will save us.

Seems like it depends to an extent what your definition of faith is. So, if you define true faith as naturally encompassing those things I just mentioned (charity, self-giving love, obedience, etc.) then yes, faith alone can save us.

At least, this is how I'm understanding it.

[Ginger]

I have met people who feel they have committed such grave sins, they can never be forgiven.  Luther's message says we can be forgiven - no matter what we have done.

This isn't Luther's teaching, it's the Gospel message and always has been the Church teaching.

Exactly! Luther's message was in accordance to the Word of God.  Even Pope B. has acknowledged such.

Certain disciplines and practices of certain churchmen in the middle ages needed to be reformed. About this, Luther had a point.

Again, we agree.

However, the teachings of Christ didn't need to be reformed or modified or added to. This is where Luther erred: he should have stayed away from trying to define new doctrine.

But Luther didn't create any new doctrines. "Faith Alone" is not a new doctrine. It's Biblical. The Pope has affirmed it is sound doctrine and clarified the meaning.

The proof is that Protestant churches don't teach "nothing matters".  The proof is the word "alone is not found in English translations of Protestant Bibles.

There are Protestants who choose to believe what pleases them, but there are Catholics who do the same.  I know a Catholic who insists even atheists can go to heaven without acknowledging Jesus if they die saving someone else's life. That's not the fault of the RC, it's just a sad fact of life.   

Ginger

[andiclare]

I have met people who feel they have committed such grave sins, they can never be forgiven.  Luther's message says we can be forgiven - no matter what we have done.

This isn't Luther's teaching, it's the Gospel message and always has been the Church teaching.

Exactly! Luther's message was in accordance to the Word of God.  Even Pope B. has acknowledged such.

Certain disciplines and practices of certain churchmen in the middle ages needed to be reformed. About this, Luther had a point.

Again, we agree.

However, the teachings of Christ didn't need to be reformed or modified or added to. This is where Luther erred: he should have stayed away from trying to define new doctrine.

But Luther didn't create any new doctrines. "Faith Alone" is not a new doctrine. It's Biblical. The Pope has affirmed it is sound doctrine and clarified the meaning.

Well but here's the tricky part...if the Church and Luther are in perfect agreement about this, then why did Luther feel the need to alter the specifics of the salvation doctrine when he broke away from the Church?

Salvation by grace through faith alone vis a vis the imputed righteousness of Christ is a doctrine that originated with Luther.

Salvation by grace through faith alone, faith proven and exemplified by charity and obedience to Christ's commands, is the doctrine of the Church and what the Holy Father was teaching about in November.

[Ginger]

Certain disciplines and practices of certain churchmen in the middle ages needed to be reformed. About this, Luther had a point.

However, the teachings of Christ didn't need to be reformed or modified or added to. This is where Luther erred: he should have stayed away from trying to define new doctrine.

Luther didn't create any new doctrines. "Faith Alone" is not a new doctrine. It's Biblical. The Pope has affirmed it is sound doctrine and clarified the meaning.

Well but here's the tricky part...if the Church and Luther are in perfect agreement about this, then why did Luther feel the need to alter the specifics of the salvation doctrine when he broke away from the Church?

Salvation by grace through faith alone....

This is not what Luther taught, it is what the Catholic Church claims he taught.

continued.....

[Ginger]

Consider this: If your church began to move in a direction counter to the Gospel of Christ, the first thing you should do is bring it to the attention of the Hierarchy of the church.

If you then found out they were part of the conspiracy, wouldn't you make known to the congregation what was happening?

That is what Luther did.

To his disappointment, Luther discovered the abuses went all the way to the top.

In protest (hence the term "Protestant") many Christians left the church, but since their desire was not to leave the true faith, they were forced to form a new church, not a new religion.

In essence, the very man whom the RC has proclaimed a heretic is the one man who is ultimately responsible for cleansing the Church of a false doctrine, a heresy.

If the Church had listened to Luther, and corrected this heresy, Luther would be a nobody. Luther would have continued to place his trust in the RC and the split would never have happened.

So, one might ask "why the differences between Protestants and Catholics concerning doctrines?"

If you found out the church you had placed your faith in and trusted completely had lied to you, wouldn't you then to wonder if there are others lies that might not have been discovered?

That, IMO, sums up the difference between the Protestants and the Catholics.  We don't trust the men you place your faith in because they have been caught in lies. Therefore we place our trust in God, alone.

Ginger