Jehovah's Witnesses

[111]

You missed the point.

The WTS judicially edited the quotes to make it appear the experts deny the Trinity.

It's one thing if they had quoted them to prove pagan cultures had trinitys, but that is not what they did. Instead, they misquoted them to prove they denied the Christian Trinity. These Bible scholars all believe in the Christian Trinity, yet, the WTS  society misquoted them to sound as if they deny It.

Ginger

Here is the full text of the WTS publication:

What Influenced It
 
 



India. Triune Hindu godhead, c. 7th century C.E.
 

THROUGHOUT the ancient world, as far back as Babylonia, the worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common. That influence was also prevalent in Egypt, Greece, and Rome in the centuries before, during, and after Christ. And after the death of the apostles, such pagan beliefs began to invade Christianity.

Historian Will Durant observed: "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. . . . From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity." And in the book Egyptian Religion, Siegfried Morenz notes: "The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians . . . Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology."


France. Trinity, c. 14th century C.E. (1)
 

Thus, in Alexandria, Egypt, churchmen of the late third and early fourth centuries, such as Athanasius, reflected this influence as they formulated ideas that led to the Trinity. Their own influence spread, so that Morenz considers "Alexandrian theology as the intermediary between the Egyptian religious heritage and Christianity."
 

What influenced the Christendom's Trinity? It's pagan religion from pagan nations, that's the point and not what your trying to imply. The author admitted that Trinity existed among the pagan nations.

[Ginger]

Here is the full text of the WTS publication:

LOL

Full texts don't have " .... " substituted for the words that were originally there.

Two things are necessary to verify your claims:
First, who are these authors? are they experts or scholars? If not what are their qualifications to make such claims?  With the WTS sometimes they have no qualifications except that they deny the Trinity.
Second, what does the " .... " represent? A denial of the Trinity or and affirmation? The true experts quoted in the WTS literature affirm the Christian Trinity.

The author Siegfried Morenz claims the entire Bible is spawn from paganism.  So if you trust his opinion on the Trinity, why do you deny his expertise on the rest of the Bible?  He even claims Jesus parables were not Jesus teachings, but from pre-Christian Egyptian origin.  

Ginger

BTW, Will Durant classifies himself as an agnostic.  Maybe next time you can quote an atheist's opinion to support your claims about the Trinity.  

[111]

Here is the full text of the WTS publication:

LOL

Full texts don't have " .... " substituted for the words that were originally there.

Sorry, but I have the hard copy, and if you want you can visit their website.

Two things are necessary to verify your claims:
First, who are these authors? are they experts or scholars? If not what are their qualifications to make such claims? 

you quoted them, right? They are Trinitarians, and they admitted that Trinity existed among the pagan nations prior to Christendom's Trinity.

With the WTS sometimes they have no qualifications except that they deny the Trinity.

The Bible is the best authority.

Second, what does the " .... " represent? A denial of the Trinity or and affirmation? The true experts quoted in the WTS literature affirm the Christian Trinity.

What is clear here is that they acknowledge that Trinity existed among the pagan nations and Christendom's Trinity was influenced by pagan Trinity.

The author Siegfried Morenz claims the entire Bible is spawn from paganism.  So if you trust his opinion on the Trinity, why do you deny his expertise on the rest of the Bible?  He even claims Jesus parables were not Jesus teachings, but from pre-Christian Egyptian origin. 

The more logical question here is, was Trinity existed and worship among the pagan nation?[/b][/color][/font][/size]Ginger

BTW, Will Durant classifies himself as an agnostic.  Maybe next time you can quote an atheist's opinion to support your claims about the Trinity.   

The WTS even quoted a Trinitarian, and he admitted that Trinity was pagan God.

[111]

JWs in our country will not turn back to anyone and they don't accept any outside their organization.

These JWs came to my house teaching me for several months.  I listened, asked wuestions and did my research. The last time they came I showed them my findings - that they misquoted sources to change what people said, and asked "If you have the truth, why do you have to lie to convince others?  The truth should be able to stand on its own."  They left and never came back.

It seems you failed to show me your claims. It cannot be validated unless you can prove them here.

[Ginger]

 

111,

You don't seem to understand what is being said.

The WTS says these Christian experts deny the Christian Trinity. The WTS misquotes them to prove it.  But they reality is theses expert affirm the Christian Trinity.

Yet, all you can say is pagan trinities existed before Christianity.

Do you see the problem here? 

Take a look at your pre-1960's NWT Bible. Look at Hebrews 1:6.  What does it say?  Now look at the same verse in the newest NWT Bible.  I can't find my NWT Bibles, but I'm relatively certain that is one of the verses that was changed to support WTS doctrines.

Happy New Year!

[111]

111,

You don't seem to understand what is being said.

I think you don't seems to understand.

The WTS says these Christian experts deny the Christian Trinity. The WTS misquotes them to prove it.  But they reality is theses expert affirm the Christian Trinity.

The WTS is trying to prove tha Trinity existed among the pagan nations. And influenced the Christendom's Trinity.

Yet, all you can say is pagan trinities existed before Christianity.

Exactly! Because that's the reason they quoted them.

Do you see the problem here? 

Do you get the sense of it now?

Take a look at your pre-1960's NWT Bible. Look at Hebrews 1:6.  What does it say?  Now look at the same verse in the newest NWT Bible.  I can't find my NWT Bibles, but I'm relatively certain that is one of the verses that was changed to support WTS doctrines.

Then you must be sure. Your changing topic. From Isaiah 43.10 to WTS booklet and now Hebrews 1:6

Happy New Year!

Your welcome!!!!

[Ginger]

 

You asked what Bible verses the WTS changed because they contradicted their teachings so they would agreed with their teachings.  I can't find my NWT Bibles so I gave you a verse that I believe was changed (if memory serves me)

I have not responded to your question about Isaiah because I don't care to spread our dialog out in too many directions.  Let's just keep to your original assertions about my comments on the JWs.

1. JW's are trying to prove the Triune Christian God is a myth by asserting the concept rose from pre-christian pagan cultures.  The experts they quoted to prove their point were misquoted and deny with JW claims on the Trinity.

2. The concept of a Triune God existed from the beginning.

YHWH speaks in Zechariah 12:10 of Christ in both first and third person:

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (KJV)

Who was pierced, 111?  YHWH or Jesus?
This is just one example of many.

3.  Did you look up the verse in you pre-1960's NWT? 

[111]

You asked what Bible verses the WTS changed because they contradicted their teachings so they would agreed with their teachings.  I can't find my NWT Bibles so I gave you a verse that I believe was changed (if memory serves me)

NWT is a must if you want to study JWs. You can't prove anything without it.

I have not responded to your question about Isaiah because I don't care to spread our dialog out in too many directions.  Let's just keep to your original assertions about my comments on the JWs.

It was the original topic of this thread.

1. JW's are trying to prove the Triune Christian God is a myth by asserting the concept rose from pre-christian pagan cultures.  The experts they quoted to prove their point were misquoted and deny with JW claims on the Trinity.

This was already answered in my previous posts.

2. The concept of a Triune God existed from the beginning.

Trinity as presented by different authors originated from pagan religion.

YHWH speaks in Zechariah 12:10 of Christ in both first and third person:

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (KJV)

That's another topic we can talk about.

Who was pierced, 111?  YHWH or Jesus?
This is just one example of many.

It seems you don't appreciate the 'representative function' of Jesus Christ.

3.  Did you look up the verse in you pre-1960's NWT? 

The burden of proof is yours not mine.